Magik theory?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PHPab4d Forum Index -> Writing Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Elena, aka Leto Bucher
Jihaddi


Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Waldemar, ON

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:06 am    Post subject: Magik theory? Reply with quote

Weirdest thing... I've mused on magic and magic theory a bit, but most of the characters I've developed for my various stories, fanfic and others, don't generally use magic that much. But magic theory is just something really, really interesting to think about. Here's a few interesting questions I've asked, some ideas:

- What is magic? Is it just some form of biological or whatever energy that we haven't discovered yet? Or is it something more?
- Do you HAVE to be born with some innate form of magic to be able to work it? Or can (should) anyone be capable of learning?

- The Three Skills: courtesy of the movie 'Merlin' starring Sam Neil (great flick).
1st Skill- words (all wizards)
2nd skill- hands (some wizards)
3rd skill- thought (no wizards. apparently you have to be near supernatural for that to work).

And the variations of these I've thought about (courtesy of my Harry Potter fanfic):
...He stuck the wand in his belt and held up his hands. “See these? Yer hands are just as much a tool as yer wand. Yer wand, however, focuses and amplifies the magic inherent within ye. Some wizards can perform simple spells without a wand, but only with much practice and years of effort. Almost all wizards can do things like snuff a candle or ride a broom- an item that reacts to the magic in yer body. The magic also protects ye, like when ye fell down the stairs as a child and bounced right back up...

...Words, hands, thought. These are the three ‘rules’ that Merlin spoke of. And not so much rules as a system of classification.” Professor Arthurson continued. “Merlin stated that a wizard is capable of three levels of skill. Words: that means using your wand and the spell. Hands: this can come in two parts. The first is the spell and hand movements, and the second is purely gestures. And thought... well, few I've known have managed it...

Harry Potter is really fascinating, because it is the first fantasy I've read where wands (an item) is absolutely nessicary for performing magic. In that world, a wizard without a wand is basically crippled and unable to defend themselves.

Well, those are just a few things I thought I'd get out of my skull to bounce around with. Hopefully they're not entirely without merit...

Slainte!
Leto
aka Elena the University Student
"save me from my studies!"
_________________
Mors Principium Est
Remember... PILLAGE before you BURN!
“Usually I ask only two questions- what are we dealing with and how do I kill it."
Everything I know I learned from killing smart people and eating their brains Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Pupp
Jihaddi


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 47
Location: JPV

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Magik theory? Reply with quote

Elena, aka Leto Bucher wrote:
Weirdest thing... I've mused on magic and magic theory a bit, but most of the characters I've developed for my various stories, fanfic and others, don't generally use magic that much. But magic theory is just something really, really interesting to think about. Here's a few interesting questions I've asked, some ideas:

- What is magic? Is it just some form of biological or whatever energy that we haven't discovered yet? Or is it something more?
- Do you HAVE to be born with some innate form of magic to be able to work it? Or can (should) anyone be capable of learning?

- The Three Skills: courtesy of the movie 'Merlin' starring Sam Neil (great flick).
1st Skill- words (all wizards)
2nd skill- hands (some wizards)
3rd skill- thought (no wizards. apparently you have to be near supernatural for that to work).

And the variations of these I've thought about (courtesy of my Harry Potter fanfic):
...He stuck the wand in his belt and held up his hands. “See these? Yer hands are just as much a tool as yer wand. Yer wand, however, focuses and amplifies the magic inherent within ye. Some wizards can perform simple spells without a wand, but only with much practice and years of effort. Almost all wizards can do things like snuff a candle or ride a broom- an item that reacts to the magic in yer body. The magic also protects ye, like when ye fell down the stairs as a child and bounced right back up...

...Words, hands, thought. These are the three ‘rules’ that Merlin spoke of. And not so much rules as a system of classification.” Professor Arthurson continued. “Merlin stated that a wizard is capable of three levels of skill. Words: that means using your wand and the spell. Hands: this can come in two parts. The first is the spell and hand movements, and the second is purely gestures. And thought... well, few I've known have managed it...

Harry Potter is really fascinating, because it is the first fantasy I've read where wands (an item) is absolutely nessicary for performing magic. In that world, a wizard without a wand is basically crippled and unable to defend themselves.

Well, those are just a few things I thought I'd get out of my skull to bounce around with. Hopefully they're not entirely without merit...

Slainte!
Leto
aka Elena the University Student
"save me from my studies!"


See: other thread... and www.jihad.net/roleplaying.html (specifically, the magic bits)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Elena, aka Leto Bucher
Jihaddi


Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Waldemar, ON

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject: time zones? Reply with quote

One thing I'm just wondering...what timezone are you in, Puppetmaster? I have a hard time imagineing you posting at 6.15 local time. Wink Thanks for the input, by the way.[/quote]
_________________
Mors Principium Est
Remember... PILLAGE before you BURN!
“Usually I ask only two questions- what are we dealing with and how do I kill it."
Everything I know I learned from killing smart people and eating their brains Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Mal-3
Frustrated Pulp Hero


Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 147
Location: Denver, CO

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Magik theory? Reply with quote

Pupp wrote:
See: other thread... and www.jihad.net/roleplaying.html (specifically, the magic bits)


Thought I'd jump in here with a caveat: I'm in the middle of a gihuge revision of the RPG book, and one of the things at the top of the list to be revised is the magic bits. (FWIW, the one big thing that's going by the wayside is the "magic & technology are totally incompatible. I'm not sure how I'm going to water it down to avoid munchkinism, but I'm sure I'll come up with something.)
_________________
S. Malaclypse Breen
GM, Archivist, Civilian Advisor Emeritus
***
"Good lord, he's using country music!"
"He dies! He dies screaming!"
--Deadpool #68
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Pupp
Jihaddi


Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 47
Location: JPV

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: time zones? Reply with quote

Elena, aka Leto Bucher wrote:
One thing I'm just wondering...what timezone are you in, Puppetmaster? I have a hard time imagineing you posting at 6.15 local time. Wink Thanks for the input, by the way.
[/quote]

EST, here. East coast represent!

...and hey, n/p. Like I said, well, somewhere... it's good to have someone interested who isn't a raving l44t mouthbreather or troll. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Elena, aka Leto Bucher
Jihaddi


Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Waldemar, ON

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: More? Reply with quote

Well, here's another interesting theory on magic, courtesy Terry Goodkind's 'Sword of Truth' fantasy series. This is actually a selection from his latest book, Chainfire.



“…he blunders around demanding that things be done simply because he has dreamed them up, because he is the great emperor and he wishes his visions to be brought to life.”

Richard rubbed his fingers back and forth on his brow, rolling off the dirt. "Don't sell him short in that regard. It's possible that he knows mor about what he's doing than you realize."

"What do you mean?"

"I may not know a lot about the subject of magic, but one of the things I have learned is that magic can also be thought of much like an art form. Through artistic expression- for lack of a better term- magic that has never been before can be created:"

Nicci stared in astonished disbelief. "Richard, I don't know where you could have heard such a thing, but it just doesn't work that way."

"I know, I know. Kahlan thinks I'm out on a limb with this, too. Having been raised around wizards, she knows a lot about magic and in the past she has flatly insisted that I'm wrong. But I'm not. I've done it before. Using the gift in such a way, in new and original ways, got me out of what would otherwise have been unbreakable traps."
....Anyway," Richard said, getting back to the crux of the matter, "just because Jagang doesn't have the gift, doesn't mean he can't still dream up things- dream up nightmares- like Nicholas. It is through such original conceptualization that the most deadly things, for which there may be n conventional counter, are created. I suspect that this may have been the method those wizards in ancient times used for creating weapons out of people in the first place:'

Nicci was beside herself with bottled agitation.

"Richard, magic just doesn't work like that. You can't dream up whatever you'd like to have, wish for what you want. Magic functions by the laws of its nature, just like all other things in the world. Whim will not make boards out of trees; you must cut the tree to the desired form. If you want a house, you can't wish up bricks and boards to stack themselves into a dwelling; you must use your hands to craft the structure."

Richard leaned toward the sorceress. "Yes, but it's the human imagination that makes those concrete actions not just possible, but effective. Builders think in terms of houses or barns; they do what's been done before simply because that was what was done before. Much of the time they don't want to think, so they never envision anything more. They limit themselves to repetition and as an excuse they insist that it must be done way because it has always been done that way. Most magic is like that- the gifted simply repeating what has already been done before, believing that it must be done that way with no more justification than that it has always been done that way.

“Before a grand palace can be built, it first has to be imagined by someone old enough to have a vision of what could be. A palace will not spontaneously spring forth to the surprise of all while men are attempt-ting to build a barn. Only the conscious act of conceptualization can bring about the reality.

“For that act of creative imagination to bring about the existence of a palace, it cannot violate any of the laws of the nature of the things that are used. On the contrary, the person who imagines a grand palace with the goal of seeing it built must be intimately aware of the nature of all the things he will use in the construction. If he isn't, the palace will fall down. He must know the nature of the materials better than the man who uses them to build a simple barn. It's not a mutter of wishing for something that transcends the laws of nature, but a matter of original thinking based on those laws of nature.

“I grew up in the woods around Hartland, never having seen a palace.” Richard spread his arms, as if to show her the things he had seen since leaving his homeland. "Until I saw the castle at Tamarana, the Wizard's Keep, and the Confessors' Palace in Aydindril, or the People's Palace in D’Hara, I never imagined that such places existed- or even that they could exist. They were beyond the scope of my thinking at the time.

“And yet, even though I never imagined that such places could be built, other men thought them up, and they were built. I think that one of the important functions of grand creations is that they inspire people.”

Nicci appeared not only to be swept up in his explanation, but to be considering his words with serious interest. "Do you mean to say, then, you think an art form can also shape such important things as the function of magic?"

Richard smiled. "Nicci, you could not grasp the importance of life until I carved the statue back in Altur'Rang. When you saw the concept in tangible form you were able at last to put together all the things you had learned throughout your life and finally grasp its meaning. An artistic creation touched your soul. That's what I mean about an important function of great works is that they inspire people.

"Because it inspired you with the beauty of life, with the nobility of man, you acted to become free-something you had never thought was possible. Because the people of Altur'Rang as well could see in that statue what could and should be, they were stirred to stand up to the tyranny crushing their lives. It was not accomplished by copying other statues, by doing what was the accepted norm for statues in the Old World of showing man as weak and ineffective, but by an idea of beauty, a vision of nobility, that shaped what I carved.

"I didn't violate the nature of the marble I used, but rather I used the nature of the stone to accomplish something different than what others routinely did with it. I studied the properties of stone, I learned how to work it, and I sought to understand what more I could do with it in order to bring about my objective. I had Victor make me the finest tools that would enable me to do the work in the way it needed to be done. In that way I brought to reality what I wanted to create, what had never been before.

"I think that magic can work this way as well. I believe that such original ideas played a part in how weapons were once created out of people. After all, when such weapons were made, they were effective in large part because they were original, because they had never been thought of or seen before. In many instances, the other side in the war then had to work to create entirely new things out of magic that were able to counter those weapons. In many cases they were able to render the weapon obsolete by creating a countermagic, and then someone on the other side immediately went to work thinking up some new horror. If using magic creatively was not possible, then how did the wizards of old create weapons with it? You can't say they simply got the knowledge from a book, or from past experience; where and how would the first such weapons have originated if not with an original idea? Someone had to have used magic creatively in the first place.

"I think that Jagang is again doing this very thing with magic. He has studied some of what was done in the great war, what weapons were created, and learned from that. He sometimes may direct that what was once created to be created again, such as with Nicholas, but in other instances I think he imagines what has never been, what goes beyond what has been done before, and has it brought to reality by those who know how to use magic to build what he wants.

“In these acts of creation it isn't the work that is the most remarkable aspect, but the idea and vision that makes the labor effective, just as carpenters and bricklayers who built houses and barns can be employed to construct a palace. It wasn't so much their labor that was remarkable in the creation of palaces, but the act of insight and creation that gave it action."

Kinda long-winded, maybe, but neat stuff all the same. Smile
_________________
Mors Principium Est
Remember... PILLAGE before you BURN!
“Usually I ask only two questions- what are we dealing with and how do I kill it."
Everything I know I learned from killing smart people and eating their brains Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Doc Forrest
Jihaddi


Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking as someone who doesn't use magic in their character, I think you've written rather a good explanation of it.
_________________
Still alive, Still sane, Still here...

VRDET R&D Technician Forrest King
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PHPab4d Forum Index -> Writing Forum All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Bluetab template design by FF8Jake of FFD
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group